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Post by Rosie on Jan 26, 2006 22:09:06 GMT -1
hmm. well, I think it's a bit of a toss up. i've been brought up right pby my parents. i have such a consience, and I feel I know what is right and wrong. but there are so many people who have absolutely no guilt whatsoever. (or so it seems) There are times that humans do seem nothing but a pack of screaming monkeys in clothes. I think morality is more of a social pressure, what is socially acceptable. and remember, what is considered moral and just here may not halfway across the world. I think I might be siding with the second option. I think. dang it, now my brain hurts.
rosie
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Post by [giulietta-off dreaming] on Jan 27, 2006 22:43:08 GMT -1
lol.
Here's what I think: I believe that we have turned ourselves into a species that no longer has to fight for survival, a super-species. We can survive without eating or being eaten. But it is not necessarily a good thing. I call it a "super-species" because I have no better word.
Other animals have not yet gotten to this degree. Everything they do that we say is "immoral", like killing their young or eating the young of others, is something they do for survival and without this they would probably be extinct by now. Yes, they do not know what morality is. No, they are not immoral. They have one natural instinct, survival, and we have not quite lost this, too. But the "survival" stakes we play for are much lower. Social gain, gain of esteem, and gain of power, mostly. However, there are still people who try to survive other ways.
However, I think, to a certain extent, we have also become quite arrogant. People who know me personally describe as an "environmentalist" but that's not all I feel. I think that as humans, we think we can survive because, "not only are we "moral" we are also more powerful, and stronger."
But are we moral? We are encouraging the killing of other animals, and why?
One of our natural qualities seems to be defiance. And I think that defiance is going to cost us one day. There is one fable by Aesop. I forget exactly what it is, but it's about a great oak tree and reeds. The reeds bend with the wind, and stay standing during a big storm. The oak defies the winds and falls over. The more we try to disassociate ourselves with animals and defy the powers of nature, the more likekly we are to make a mistake and all die. I'm not sure these stakes are worth the possible gains.
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Post by Rosie on Jan 30, 2006 20:14:45 GMT -1
yes. my dad was telling me the same thing about bamboo and beech trees. (we were going to a mountain for the weekly ski race: beech trees are about the only trees that survive in higher elevations because the wind is so fierce, and they bend in the wind. bamboo: the gates that you ski around in ski racing are these plastic gates (break-a-way gates) that are rubbery at the bottom so the good racers can flatten them with their knee, hand, or shoulder (I"m just learning how to do this) my dad said when he was a kid, the gates were bamboo. The bamboo never broke when the racer hit it, but bent, and our human defiant bodies got majorly bruised, way more than when you hit a break-a-way gate)
anyways we do not bend, and some people get killed for it. we also force ourselves onto other people, like the way our young (relatively) american nation is forcing democracy onto a place that is described as the cradle of civilization.
but how this deals with same-sex marriage, i have no idea...
rosie
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Post by [giulietta-off dreaming] on Jan 30, 2006 23:27:15 GMT -1
Same >< I'm just saying what I think about the issue Anni put forth.
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Post by Anni Howdy on Feb 4, 2006 18:07:01 GMT -1
The way that I link this with same sex marriage is that homosexuality is considered right nowerdays. Saying that you think is wrong can get you landed in prison. There is a case to say that it could be considered morally wrong - it goes against nature, against the good of the species, etc. etc. People say it's not natural. So is it society that tells us that love is love and we should accept homosexuality etc. or it it the 'inner part of us'?
I think that it is society, but still, that doesn't explain whether it should be right or wrong.
I don't know. I'm just very confused over this subject - I'm trying to work out christianity, and it's... very hard. And furthermore, a very very close friend of mine told me she was gay yesterday. It's very hard to put into words how much she means to me - she's the center of my world, and I would do anything for her. And this has really shaken me, not because I disaprove in anyway, but because even the tiny changes she makes in her life drasticly affect me. It almost feels (and this sounds really stupid now I try and put it in words) that I'm gay now, because our lives are just that entwined. And I've had too many internet influences. It's just so very confusing.
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Post by Rosie on Feb 4, 2006 21:39:25 GMT -1
it's difficult, to learn that someone close to you is so very different. good luck with that, anni.
i don't think homosexuality is wrong. it is a shared love, and that is what god wanted, for us to love one another. not to love all the perfect ones and scorn anyone different. that's what I think.
rosie
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Post by [giulietta-off dreaming] on Feb 12, 2006 15:58:07 GMT -1
Hmm... I agree with all of you. But I also think we need to find another topic to "debate" And hopefully people will choose DIFFERENT sides this time. ^^
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Post by Rosie on Feb 14, 2006 22:20:12 GMT -1
yes. and strange that we all agree in the debate section, and that is like, impossible to achieve in the rest of the forum.
roise
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Post by [giulietta-off dreaming] on Mar 9, 2006 1:11:04 GMT -1
Yeah, it's weird... +must think of something+
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Post by Imogen on Mar 18, 2006 15:54:25 GMT -1
Its a great subject to discuss. I believe that there is no reason that same sex marriages should not be allowed. They are really only the choice of the people in the end. It does not affect anybody un-necessaryly therefore, people should not be against it!!!!
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